In the first episode of the new season of 30 With Guyon Espiner, New Zealand soldier Jordan O'Brien reveals the terror of fighting on the frontlines of the Ukraine war - and how drone warfare has made combat deadlier.
Jordan O'Brien has had many near-death experiences. One moment stands out - the time he came seconds from being killed by a Russian rocket.
"The image [I have] is the blinding flash of light that almost killed me. I wear a piece of a rocket that almost took my life and the lives of two of my mates," he said.
"It was 2am and I was on watch, and didn't even hear it come in. It just hit the ground. And it's just a blinding flash of light. And then I'm lying on my back, and I come to, and I thought my mates are probably gone. Fortunately, we all survived. Absolute miracle."
O'Brien, a former New Zealand soldier, has been fighting on the front lines of Ukraine's war against Russia since early 2022.
Now a drone operator in a Ukrainian military unit, O'Brien has been involved in missions across multiple regions, including inside Russian territory.
In December 2024, a Russian court sentenced him in absentia to 14 years in prison and fined him 1.3 million rubles (NZ$20,000), labeling him a mercenary.
O'Brien dismissed the accusation, making headlines by responding to the charges flippantly on social media - "LOL." He sees himself as a soldier defending Europe from an expansionist Russian war machine, not a hired gun. And his war is one fought from the sky.
'The more of an edge you have, the better the chance of surviving'
Drones now dominate the battlefield. As O'Brien puts it: "It wasn't more about dealing as much death and destruction as possible as it was staying with the cutting edge. Because if you understand the latest technology on the battlefield, you have more of an edge and you need that to stay alive. The more of an edge you have, the better chances of surviving you have."
His role is not just about pressing buttons from a distance. O'Brien is on the ground in assaults, piloting drones in direct coordination with Ukrainian troops. In the Kursk region of Russia, he was among the first waves of soldiers, flying drones to provide real-time intelligence. The risk was huge.
"Communications were very poor, and so sometimes you had to be there with the assaulters, with the storm troopers, in order to get actual information and make sure we were striking the right targets."
Drones now 'rule the battlefield'
O'Brien describes two types of drones: traditional models that drop explosives from above, and FPV (First-Person View) drones, which pilots control in real time to crash directly into targets.
"The [FPV] drone operators wear goggles, and you fly a drone from a first-person view. It'll have an explosive payload attached, and you're directly hitting a vehicle, a position, or enemy troops, as opposed to dropping payloads, which is how it all started."
This shift has changed the nature of combat itself.
"I remember a time when we could sleep under the stars and not even worry about drones. But now, of course, you don't dare show your face because there's something watching you. So now they truly do rule the battlefield. And it's anywhere between 70 to 85 percent of all casualties on the battlefield here in Ukraine are attributed to drones."
'Nightmare fuel'
The use of drones has not only made warfare deadlier, it has changed how soldiers experience fear. The sound of an incoming drone, O'Brien says, is pure terror.
"That whirring noise that a drone makes, the propellers in the sky. That's nightmare fuel. That sends shivers down your spine, even when you hear guys just practising with them."
He knows the feeling firsthand. He has been on the receiving end of a drone attack himself.
"I've been on the receiving end of an FPV attack as well, about 50 meters away, it exploded. This was in Russia itself. We need a direct line of sight between us and [the drone.] We can't sit in the trees because it interferes with the signal. So we need to be outside of tree lines, fully exposed to the elements."
'We are here to end lives'
O'Brien has also experienced more traditional combat. Before becoming a drone operator, he fought in close-range gun battles, seeking out enemy positions. He has no illusions about the purpose of war.
"We get all the flack online. People say, 'oh, you cowards. You sit up the back and you hide and you fly your little drones'. But this is warfare. It's not about trying to look like the bravest man on the battlefield running at Russian trenches. I can kill more Russians, and that's what I'm here to do. That is the job. There's no sugar-coating it. We are here to end lives."
No such thing as a ceasefire: 'It only ever escalates when they start talking'
Peace talks and the possibility of a ceasefire make headlines, but on the battlefield the reality is different, O'Brien says.
"It only ever escalates when they start talking. When the word ceasefire gets thrown around, it's like we anticipate more swarms of drones, in terms of the Long Range drones, hitting [Ukrainian] cities, and we do the same to them. We smash their oil production facilities and anything we can to hinder their war machine."
"Any sort of bullshit peace settlement, we know it's not going to be lasting. Russia is not the kind to just roll over and accept some sort of half-arsed victory. They need all or nothing. Their entire existence is based upon their victory in World War Two. I've seen it inside Russia. I've been to a Russian school. The entire school was like a museum for the Second World War. Their entire belief as a people is victory at all costs."
'Go to jail, or go to the front'
In the full interview on 30 With Guyon Espiner, O'Brien recounts combat experiences with both elite Russian forces, as well as those forced into the fight.
"We've fought against the real tough cream of the crop of the Russians, but also we've seen the mobilized guys. And one of them we actually spoke to.
"This young guy had been busted with a small bag of marijuana on a bus in Moscow, and it was either go to jail for years, or you join the army and you go to the front."
In the interview, O'Brien recounts the harrowing circumstances leading to the young conscript's surrender to Ukrainian forces.
"Now he gets food, water, a place to sleep, and eventually he'll probably be part of a prisoner swap. But while he's with us, he's safer than he would be in a Russian prison or, alternatively, what could have happened on the battlefield. He could have been smashed by an artillery round or anything. That was [my] one experience talking to a Russian prisoner of war."
'The future of warfare'
For now, O'Brien remains committed to Ukraine's war effort. He has no plans to leave.
"Drones are the future of warfare, and they are only going to become bigger and better. And I want to keep the knife edge sharp, so to speak, and stay involved.
"I feel very committed to this country now, and I can't see myself leaving until I know this thing is done for good."
But he knows that luck runs out.
Two New Zealanders have already been killed fighting in Ukraine: Kane Te Tai, a former soldier turned volunteer fighter, and Dominic Abelen, an active-duty soldier who left the New Zealand Defence Force to join the war. Their deaths serve as a reminder of the risks O'Brien faces every day.
"Some days you wake up and it does instil you with joy, because I realize what I've been through and what I've survived. But of course, you keep dancing around the fire, eventually you're going to get burnt. So it's almost not a matter of if, it's always a matter of when."
For the full, uncut conversation with Jordan O'Brien, watch [ https://www.rnz.co.nz/programmes/30-with-guyon-espiner 30 with Guyon Espiner.]
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