Photo: RNZ / Mark Papalii
The man accused of lighting the fatal Loafers Lodge fire told a forensic psychiatrist voices in his head told him to burn the place down, a court has heard.
The court was also told the man had previously been convicted of attempted arson in 1996, and of a serious violent offence in 2009. Further details were expected to be revealed later in the trial.
The 50-year-old defendant, whose identity is suppressed, has denied murdering five people by setting the Wellington boarding house alight on 16 May, 2023.
The Crown said the man lit the fire knowing it was "morally wrong", and that people could die as a result.
The defence intends to argue he was insane.
At the High Court in Wellington on Wednesday, forensic psychiatrist Dr Justin Barry-Walsh said he did not believe the threshold for the defence of insanity had been met.
Loafers Lodge, photographed in 2025. Photo: RNZ / Samuel Rillstone
Voices told him to 'burn the place down' - psychiatrist
Dr Barry-Walsh recounted several interviews he conducted with the defendant following the blaze, and the man's arrest days later.
He said the man told him the night of the fire he heard voices in his head, telling him that people at Loafers Lodge were planning to attack him, and he believed a camera in his room was spying on him.
"[The defendant] said he asked himself how he could stop this from happening... the voices told him to burn the place down."
In response, he grabbed clothing and went to the lounge to set the couch on fire, using a lighter.
"[The defendant] said he then walked outside and waited, thinking the place would be on fire. [The defendant] said the voices told him to go back and check."
The man told Barry-Walsh he went back to the lounge and saw the fire had been put out.
"[The defendant] said voices told him 'tonight is the night' so he went and lit another fire."
Flames seen in the top storey of the Loafers Lodge building in Adelaide Road, Newtown, Wellington. Photo: Supplied / Axel Dann
The man told Barry-Walsh it was as if the voices were spirits controlling him, and they were whispery.
"[The defendant] said that when he hears bad voices, or voices that say bad things will happen, the voices will be a whisper," Barry-Walsh said.
The man told Barry-Walsh the voices told him specifically to light blankets on fire in a wardrobe, and said things like "turn here" and "grab that".
"[The defendant] said he wanted 'the place to burn so they would stop doing this'. [The defendant] said he thought this would 'scare them off'."
Barry-Walsh said the man told him voices had not commanded him before that night.
He initially denied lighting the fires because he worried if he told people "I would get life", Barry-Walsh said.
His clinical history from before the fire, that was earlier read to the court, stated while he heard voices, they did not tell him what to do.
After the fires
Barry-Walsh said the man told him at the time of lighting the fire he wasn't thinking of the consequences, but he now realised what he did was "very wrong".
"[The defendant] said he could hear a siren as he walked away from Loafers and knew that it was the fire brigade to put the fire out."
He told Barry-Walsh he felt bad and that someone could be trapped.
He wandered the city and was awake all night because "I just wanted to find another place to live and sleep", Barry-Walsh quoted.
The man could not remember continuing to hear the voices immediately after leaving Loafers Lodge, Barry-Walsh said.
When he asked the defendant about hearing of the fire and deaths: "[the defendant] said he'd wished he'd not done it, because he might have killed some people."
But the man said "I wanted to pay them back for what they had done to me", Barry-Walsh said.
When asked whether he thought lighting the fire was the right thing to do, the defendant replied he did not want to light the fire but "the voices were overpowering my decision not to light the fire".
In another interview, the defendant told Barry-Walsh: "I wish I didn't do it".
The man thought people would "get out" of the fire, Barry-Walsh said.
Dr Justin Barry Walsh. Photo: Nick Monro
Did the defendant know lighting the fire was morally wrong?
Crown lawyer Stephanie Bishop said arguing the defence of insanity was a "three-pronged test": the person has to have a "disease of the mind", and prove because of that they did not understand what they were doing, or that it was morally wrong.
Barry-Walsh said the man clearly had a disease of the mind - schizophrenia - and knew that starting the fire could burn the place down.
There were a number of factors that indicated both that he did not, and did, know that was morally wrong, he said.
Barry-Walsh said an interview in October was the first time the defendant had recounted voices commanding him, or "command hallucinations", and the first time he said he did not want to light the fires.
He also said the defendant alluded to the voices being quite detailed - including specific instructions to gather the materials to light the fire - which was "unusual" or "atypical".
That raised questions of the accuracy of the man's description, Barry-Walsh said.
Barry-Walsh also pointed out the man described not wanting to light the fire, but that he did because voices overpowered him.
"I think it's reasonable to infer from this that he understood that it was a bad or a wrong thing to do."
Barry-Walsh said the man told him he felt worried about what the fire could do, which indicated he had some appreciation his actions were wrong.
He also said in an April 2025 interview, the man recalled loud voices from the devil the night of the fire, rather than whispery voices he previously reported, which was a "marked difference" and raised concerns about the reliability of his accounts.
The man also said he thought he would "get away with it" because the voices told him they had "blocked the cameras" - which indicated an awareness that he knew what he was doing was wrong.
Previous offending
Barry-Walsh said while assessing whether the man knew lighting the fire was morally wrong, he considered that the man was previously convicted of attempted arson in 1996, and of a serious violent offence in 2009.
Barry-Walsh said at one stage the man told him he did not remember the attempted arson, but in another interview he detailed what happened.
"He probably lied," in the first instance, Barry-Walsh said.
The court is expected to hear more on the man's previous convictions later in the trial.
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