By day she's a psychologist. By night, a pastry chef.
It's perhaps an unusual mix, but Helen Goh has managed to rise to the top of both professions.
She was born in Malaysia to Chinese parents, moved to Australia when she was eleven, did a science degree majoring in psychology and worked in the pharmaceutical industry.
But the allure of food remained - she ran a cafe, worked in fine dining and eventually moved to London.
She went to work in one of Israeli-British chef Yotam Ottolenghi's restaurants, became his head pastry chef and eventually, a collaborator on two books with him: Sweet and Comfort.
Along the way, she earned her doctorate.
Now she's found the perfect way to combine both interests, a book of her own called Baking and the Meaning of Life: How to find joy in 100 recipes.
She joins Kathryn for a philosophical and flavoursome chat.
